Doom 3

Aug. 10, 2004 @ 12:14 AM
# 26
THA_MLGRank 5: Brigadier General (571 Points) THA_MLG

Linux? ooohhh...

And yeah, they really should have a mac version come out. Like I said, not fan of Macs, but the more the merrier I say.

Aug. 10, 2004 @ 1:52 AM
# 27
NaTaKuRank 2: General (1,816 Points) NaTaKu

OMFG!!! I can't believe that they store the main game files in RAR format!!!! No wonder it needs so much beef to run.....

Aug. 10, 2004 @ 7:53 AM
# 28
UntrueDeathRank 5: Brigadier General (746 Points) UntrueDeath

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 9 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu @ Aug 9 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OMFG!!! I can't believe that they store the main game files in RAR format!!!! No wonder it needs so much beef to run..... [/quote]
No wonder why it so easily pirated. They barely have to do anything to compress it after all the cracking.,

Aug. 11, 2004 @ 12:39 AM
# 29
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 9 2004, 01:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu @ Aug 9 2004, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OMFG!!! I can't believe that they store the main game files in RAR format!!!! No wonder it needs so much beef to run..... [/quote]
it's not rar moron. it's .pak winrar has associated itself with the the .pak files

Aug. 11, 2004 @ 2:15 PM
# 30
amodmanRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (550 Points) amodman

I'd have it by now if my birthday weren't so close...so I'll just see if I gets it for free.

Aug. 12, 2004 @ 12:35 PM
# 31
rjdRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (564 Points) rjd

I'd just like to bring up the question of gameplay vs. graphics? Does the gameplay in Doom 3 actually merit the upgrading and or purchase of a new PC/Mac to enjoy it?

My PC shit it's pants with less graphically intensive (sounding) games (but, the less beautiful and more fun games one the day in the end).

Aug. 12, 2004 @ 1:16 PM
# 32
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

yes, gameplay is excellent and you must have the graphics turned up the effects in it are amazing

Aug. 21, 2004 @ 10:35 PM
# 33
NaTaKuRank 2: General (1,816 Points) NaTaKu

<!--QuoteBegin-Tetsuo+Aug 10 2004, 07:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tetsuo @ Aug 10 2004, 07:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's not rar moron. it's .pak winrar has associated itself with the the .pak files [/quote]
ffs Tet why do u have to complain about a little thing like that... anyway a PAK file is an extention of a .PK file which is a compression technique owned by PKZIP.... and I was merely commenting that I could open it in WIN RAR and unzip it.....

I have a GF4 Ti 4200, and AMD Barton 3000+ and 512 DDR (333) and want to upgrade it... what should I buy to be able to play Doom on like 1024 X 768 with high details smothely????

Aug. 22, 2004 @ 2:45 AM
# 34
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 21 2004, 10:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu @ Aug 21 2004, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ffs Tet why do u have to complain about a little thing like that... anyway a PAK file is an extention of a .PK file which is a compression technique owned by PKZIP.... and I was merely commenting that I could open it in WIN RAR and unzip it.....

I have a GF4 Ti 4200, and AMD Barton 3000+ and 512 DDR (333) and want to upgrade it... what should I buy to be able to play Doom on like 1024 X 768 with high details smothely???? [/quote]
a new videocard, at least a 9800pro

Aug. 24, 2004 @ 12:03 PM
# 35
rjdRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (564 Points) rjd

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 21 2004, 10:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu &#064; Aug 21 2004, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have a GF4 Ti 4200, and AMD Barton 3000+ and 512 DDR (333) and want to upgrade it... what should I buy to be able to play Doom on like 1024 X 768 with high details smothely???? [/quote]


Fuck that shit.

Knock that shit up.

Ok, if you're doubting those specs (to play doom at it's best). Is my dream of an AMD 64 (plus a decent card) wasted?

Aug. 24, 2004 @ 12:15 PM
# 36
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd @ Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

Fuck that shit.

Knock that shit up.

Ok, if you're doubting those specs (to play doom at it's best). Is my dream of an AMD 64 (plus a decent card) wasted? [/quote]
at least an A64 3000+ and a radeon 9500

Aug. 24, 2004 @ 12:37 PM
# 37
rjdRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (564 Points) rjd

<!--QuoteBegin-Tetsuo+Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tetsuo &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

Fuck that shit.

Knock that shit up.

Ok, if you're doubting those specs (to play doom at it's best). Is my dream of an AMD 64 (plus a decent card) wasted? [/quote]
at least an A64 3000+ and a radeon 9500 [/quote]
I'm getting the picture now...on top that the disc is probably in DVD format.


I'm thinking ID's D3's specs are a ploy to advance the PC/Mac's gaming limits.

Why they'd advance so far and leave out some potential customers (with a golden product, and for a just good enough config to run it here and there) might be beyond me.

Aug. 24, 2004 @ 1:30 PM
# 38
The LamperusRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (507 Points) The Lamperus

<!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 07:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd @ Aug 24 2004, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tetsuo+Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tetsuo &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

Fuck that shit.

Knock that shit up.

Ok, if you're doubting those specs (to play doom at it's best). Is my dream of an AMD 64 (plus a decent card) wasted? [/quote]
at least an A64 3000+ and a radeon 9500 [/quote]
I'm getting the picture now...on top that the disc is probably in DVD format.


I'm thinking ID's D3's specs are a ploy to advance the PC/Mac's gaming limits.

Why they'd advance so far and leave out some potential customers (with a golden product, and for a just good enough config to run it here and there) might be beyond me. [/quote]
Well, actually, ID is just putting it on three friggin CDs . . .

. . . oh, and by the way, I played it earlier tonight . . . the game is a bloody borefest.

Aug. 24, 2004 @ 1:55 PM
# 39
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 12:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd @ Aug 24 2004, 12:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tetsuo+Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tetsuo &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-rjd+Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rjd &#064; Aug 24 2004, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

Fuck that shit.

Knock that shit up.

Ok, if you're doubting those specs (to play doom at it's best). Is my dream of an AMD 64 (plus a decent card) wasted? [/quote]
at least an A64 3000+ and a radeon 9500 [/quote]
I'm getting the picture now...on top that the disc is probably in DVD format.


I'm thinking ID's D3's specs are a ploy to advance the PC/Mac's gaming limits.

Why they'd advance so far and leave out some potential customers (with a golden product, and for a just good enough config to run it here and there) might be beyond me. [/quote]
no, only cd's. no dvd version is being released. you can however slipstream it onto one dvd.

Aug. 29, 2004 @ 1:53 PM
# 40
NaTaKuRank 2: General (1,816 Points) NaTaKu

does anyone know if the 6600 GT will run it any good..... I'm considering getting one instead of a 9800 Pro (cos of the shaders 3 support)

Aug. 30, 2004 @ 12:10 AM
# 41
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 29 2004, 01:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu @ Aug 29 2004, 01:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> does anyone know if the 6600 GT will run it any good..... I'm considering getting one instead of a 9800 Pro (cos of the shaders 3 support) [/quote]
the 6600's are supposed to be perfect for d3

Aug. 30, 2004 @ 5:00 AM
# 42
NaTaKuRank 2: General (1,816 Points) NaTaKu

also I've seen that I can get a 6800 Standard for under £200..... do you think it's worth buying this (I'm factoring in other games now, not just Doom) or should I wait for the 6600 GT????? Also if I get one of these NVIDIA beasts what PSU should I get (I'm using a 450 Watt atm)

Aug. 30, 2004 @ 5:38 AM
# 43
TetsuoRank 5: Brigadier General (828 Points) Tetsuo

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 29 2004, 05:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu &#064; Aug 29 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also I've seen that I can get a 6800 Standard for under £200..... do you think it's worth buying this (I'm factoring in other games now, not just Doom) or should I wait for the 6600 GT????? Also if I get one of these NVIDIA beasts what PSU should I get (I'm using a 450 Watt atm) [/quote]
well i have a 6800ultra, i payed around &#036;800 for it. it all comes down to how much you really want to spend. if you don't have a good processor there is no point in buying anything in the 6800 line and anything over 300watts will power up to a 6800gt for the ultra you need at least 380watts

Aug. 30, 2004 @ 7:13 AM
# 44
Lib3rty0xRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (494 Points) Lib3rty0x

<!--QuoteBegin-NaTaKu+Aug 30 2004, 12:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NaTaKu @ Aug 30 2004, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also I've seen that I can get a 6800 Standard for under £200..... do you think it's worth buying this (I'm factoring in other games now, not just Doom) or should I wait for the 6600 GT????? Also if I get one of these NVIDIA beasts what PSU should I get (I'm using a 450 Watt atm) [/quote]
the 6600 gt from what ive been reading on it, is not worth the money and is only a lil bit better than the 5950. if i were ya, id save up a bit and shell out the extra 100 200 for the ultra.

Aug. 31, 2004 @ 1:14 AM
# 45
NaTaKuRank 2: General (1,816 Points) NaTaKu

well the standard 6800 was only slightly slower on Doom 3 than the X800 Pro (information source: Tom's Hardware Guide) but they haven't clocked in the 6600 so I guess I'll get a 6800 standard (need to save the pennies so I can save up for my AMD 64 system) to be honest though any card that will run Doom 3 in 1600 at 40fps is a pretty damn good card considering how much it costs.... cos in England it's £189 inc delivery..... and the next one up is about £300 - £350 invcluding delivery.... the ultra is £550 which I can tell you is much more than &#036;800..... we really get ripped off for computer goods in the UK..... ew can't even import US parts cos we have to pay an import tax for high-tech shit and cars to stop us from dodging tax..... fucking money grabbing government...... we have to pay a tax called VAT every time we buy something which adds another 17.5% to the price ffs......

Aug. 31, 2004 @ 3:16 AM
# 46
Lib3rty0xRank 6: Lieutenant Colonel (494 Points) Lib3rty0x

Idk how many people on here have a ATI card with this game, but there is a tweak that I found on megagames, that really helped out alot, I gained about 10-20 fps from it.

<a href='http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/doom3enhancetheexperiencept2.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/doom...riencept2.shtml</a>

[quote]I picked up Doom3 today and let be begin by saying it's a kickass game so far. A few minuses like weapon reload (which I find add nothing to a game, except annoyance, so I don't know why many devs keep adding it to their games), but overall much above my expectations.

Anyway, to the fun part, exploring the technology.
I think I've found the source of why this game runs comparably slow on ATI hardware vs. nVidia at the moment, and found a solution to the problem.

First, open your doom3&#092;base folder. Doubleclick on the pak000.pk4 file. In the "window can't open this file .. .bla bla" dialog, go on and associate the file with an app like WinRar. With this file open in WinRar, go to the glprogs directory in the file. In there you'll find the shaders. The interaction.vfp file seems to be the main rendering shader. Altering this shader to output a constant color turns most objects into that constant color, except for stuff like computer screens etc.

So doubleclick the interaction.vfp file to open it (you may have to associate the .vfp extension with a text editor like notepad or wordpad first since we're going to edit the file). Scroll down to the fragment shader. You'll find these rows:

Code:

PARAM subOne = { -1, -1, -1, -1 };
PARAM scaleTwo = { 2, 2, 2, 2 };


Add this right below them:

Code:

PARAM specExp = { 16, 0, 0, 0 };


Now scroll down to this:

Code:

# perform a dependent table read for the specular falloff
TEX R1, specular, texture[6], 2D;


Comment out that line by adding a "#" to it, and add another line that will do the same thing with math instead, so it should look like this:

Code:

# perform a dependent table read for the specular falloff
# TEX R1, specular, texture[6], 2D;
POW R1, specular.x, specExp.x;


Save the file and close your text editor. WinRar will ask if you want to update the file in the archive, select yes. Close WinRar and enjoy about 40% higher performance in Doom3. Haven't done extensive testing yet, but my performance went from 34fps in 1280x1024 to 48fps.

Conclusion and discussion:
I don't want to complain about Carmack's work, I still consider him to be the industry leader in graphics engines. Though when I read the shader it striked me how many texture accesses it did compared to the relatively short shader, even for stuff that could just as well be done with math for a small cost in instructions. Using a dependent texture lookup for POW evaluation makes a lot of sense for R200 level hardware due to instruction set limits, but for R300 and up it's much better to just spend the three cycles it takes to evaluate POW with math instead of risking texture cache trashing with a dependent texture read, which may be much more costly, especially since the access pattern in this case will be far from linear. Also, using math improves the quality too, even though it may not be very noticable in this game.

I should point out though that I'm not sure if the constant specular factor 16 that I chose is the one that the game uses, so output may be slightly different, but if this solution will be worked into the game in a future patch, then this is easily configurable by the game so that there won't be a difference, except a lot faster.

An interesting follow-up discussion may be why this dependent texture lookup is much slower on our hardware than on nVidia. Maybe there's an architectural difference that's to blame, or maybe something else? The main point here though is that this should be good enough proof that ATI hardware can run Doom3 just as good if not better than nVidia, and that we can pass on all the "ATI suck in OpenGL", "ATI's drivers suck" etc. into the trashcan where it belongs.[/quote]

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