It's the American way I say.

Anyway Ness has a point. The only real reason Communism is bad is because it was used as a leadership of control, instead of what it was ment for (y'know... the people?).

Stalin, Kim Jong, China's Emperor... you get the idea.

Besides, even though America is all "anti-communist" and stuff, it's ironic how we actually DO have some communist-based economic priciples built into our economy.

Anyway, Ness has got a point. Even if Communism hasn't worked, Capitalism still isn't doing exactly what we wanted. Take it from me. I work a minimum wage job that can't ACTUALLY pay the bills (thank god I don't have any ATM), yet the rich get tax breaks.

See, even capitalism can be abused (especially in the hands of some retard of a leader that most the world hates... from TEXAS... if you know what I mean).

<!--QuoteBegin-Ness222+Jul 18 2004, 04:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ness222 @ Jul 18 2004, 04:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, how do you think tetris was made?!?! HUH!?

lol im kiddin... I don't believe in the communism that the soviets had or the shit today... the idea of communism is good, but every communist leader the world has seen has been power hungry asswipes. but remember, capitolism isn't any good either... People who do the hardest work don't get shit and there are people who make millions of dollars a year for doing no real work... [/quote]
Do your research first son. First of all communism attempted by anyone is always doomed to fail. Communism, though, is a form of Socialism, which in itself is not all that bad and can be used to establish stable governments. Capitalism, while not perfect (nothing is), is not really responsible for for the problems with it today. It is the government abuses of the capitalist system granted to big businesses and loopholes that shouldn't be there would the governement pull it's fucking act together. I'm a strong supporter of capitalism in it's true form, and 100% against the communist system.

so i suppose then that you are a supporter of the mcdonalds style of employment where everyone makes minimum wages? capitalism also promotes things like child labour and unsafe work practices and no thought for environmentalism. all things that governments regulate.
Then again, communism and socialism are just as stupid because it presupposes that people will be satisfied, and that everyone will be able to make an informed decision on everything.

all the systems as they are right now are fine to suit our needs. They evolve to our needs, and will continue to, so speculating on radical forms of government is somewhat pointless.

omfg I caused a political argument *gins with pride* but seriously though I'm not 100% for any current system because all past (and present) systems are used by leaders to keep their country in line (and why not?) so I like pieces of all those systems (except fudalism, divine right my fucking arse).... I dunno why but I like being kept in line by capitalism but only cos I think communism, imperialism and fudalism are all crapper......

I can see why capitalism is the most popular form of government: It grants the most rights to the majority of the people (in this case, the citizens of the nation).

But as they say, w/freedom comes responsibilities. I think the problem w/both Capitalism and Communism is that in terms of who has all the power in the nation, it's on one side of the spectrum or the other. It places too much faith in one side or the other between people and government to do the right thing.

Personally though in America (and I'm thinking the UK too), a representative-based house isn't working for us. I'd like to see something like Athens did back long ago. An entirely citizen-based government, where all the choices of laws and what not are in the hands of the people. Sure, we'd still have law enforcement and all that, but the laws enforced would be decided by the people, not some politician w/a bunch of unbroken promises.

Anyway, I'd like to see something like that happen this day in age. Even as large as nations are these days, we probably still could do it w/all the technology we have today.

<!--QuoteBegin-THA_MLG+Jul 19 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (THA_MLG @ Jul 19 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can see why capitalism is the most popular form of government: It grants the most rights to the majority of the people (in this case, the citizens of the nation).

But as they say, w/freedom comes responsibilities. I think the problem w/both Capitalism and Communism is that in terms of who has all the power in the nation, it's on one side of the spectrum or the other. It places too much faith in one side or the other between people and government to do the right thing.

Personally though in America (and I'm thinking the UK too), a representative-based house isn't working for us. I'd like to see something like Athens did back long ago. An entirely citizen-based government, where all the choices of laws and what not are in the hands of the people. Sure, we'd still have law enforcement and all that, but the laws enforced would be decided by the people, not some politician w/a bunch of unbroken promises.

Anyway, I'd like to see something like that happen this day in age. Even as large as nations are these days, we probably still could do it w/all the technology we have today. [/quote]
ok, i dont want to be the dude that points the obvious, but first off, capitalism isnt a form of government, its an economic ideology. Maybe you are reffering to democracy.

and as for putting it in the hands of people, that is absolutly impossible.

do you know how many pieces of legislation are put through the house now?? there are tons and tons and tons. and if there were just regular people, than anyone could put a piece of legislation up, and so there would be so damn much things to vote on it would be insane.

thats not even taking into account the fact that people have to be informed on these issues.

also, that doesnt consider how people vote, how to secure the vote and how much money it would cost. i mean look at how much money it costs to have one election. now imagine that for Infinty bills, and you basically have an infinite debt.

direct democracy is a nice thought, but is so impracticle that it is stupid.

the communism in china + affiliate countries, and russia + affiliate countries is not true communism, dont go basing arguments for/against communisim on those countries. true communisim is a very nice idea, but it is impossible to put into practice because there would have to be people with more responsibility than others in different areas, and some people will say their jobs are harder to do than other peoples jobs.... and so on, chaos ensues untill a dictator emerges (or perhaps a dictator lead them to communism) and we have a dictatorship where a privelidged few reighn over the masses. pretty much the same as democracy exept the dictator has more power, and fewer people are running the country. the downtrodden masses are still just as poor as the democratic ones (based on a population wide average) although the wealth is spread more evenly. communism also breaks down because there are the lazy buggers tghat dont pull their weight.

<!--QuoteBegin-ziptal+Jul 19 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ziptal @ Jul 19 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-THA_MLG+Jul 19 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (THA_MLG &#064; Jul 19 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can see why capitalism is the most popular form of government:&nbsp; It grants the most rights to the majority of the people (in this case, the citizens of the nation).

But as they say, w/freedom comes responsibilities.&nbsp; I think the problem w/both Capitalism and Communism is that in terms of who has all the power in the nation, it's on one side of the spectrum or the other.&nbsp; It places too much faith in one side or the other between people and government to do the right thing.

Personally though in America (and I'm thinking the UK too),&nbsp; a representative-based house isn't working for us.&nbsp; I'd like to see something like Athens did back long ago.&nbsp; An entirely citizen-based government, where all the choices of laws and what not are in the hands of the people.&nbsp; Sure, we'd still have law enforcement and all that, but the laws enforced would be decided by the people, not some politician w/a bunch of unbroken promises.

Anyway, I'd like to see something like that happen this day in age.&nbsp; Even as large as nations are these days, we probably still could do it w/all the technology we have today. [/quote]
ok, i dont want to be the dude that points the obvious, but first off, capitalism isnt a form of government, its an economic ideology. Maybe you are reffering to democracy.

and as for putting it in the hands of people, that is absolutly impossible.

do you know how many pieces of legislation are put through the house now?? there are tons and tons and tons. and if there were just regular people, than anyone could put a piece of legislation up, and so there would be so damn much things to vote on it would be insane.

thats not even taking into account the fact that people have to be informed on these issues.

also, that doesnt consider how people vote, how to secure the vote and how much money it would cost. i mean look at how much money it costs to have one election. now imagine that for Infinty bills, and you basically have an infinite debt.

direct democracy is a nice thought, but is so impracticle that it is stupid. [/quote]
Mmm... you make some valid points (so does CHEESEPOT).

Okay, correction taken. I guess I was referring to democracy.

Okay, maybe a direct democracy wouldn't work. But nor has putting power in the hands of a population of less than 1000 People (American gov't over here). Sure, it's a lot simpler, but it's still not failsafe.

Then again, we aren't either.

My only conclusion from this one is that government really has strayed from it's roots of a group of people under a certain way of life (or something to that extent), to basically a power trip of sorts for whoever's involved.

I guess you could say the idea of a government is perfect, but the human factor plays into this all to serverely to make it work, well... dangerously flawed beyond much recognition.

Fuck it... if anyone wants to go back 10,000 years to the time of nomads, hop on my camel. We will roam the ends of the globe.

lmao I like that idea ..... anyway the main problem I have with communism isn't that everyone is equal, ect because I like that and most other ideals (socialism, deomcracey, ect) all share the equality (although I'm fucking fed up with people using equality (if they're a 'minority') to get their own way because the person who said no was white) bu I DO NOT wanna live in a world where the 'trailer trash' is idolised because they are the poorest, blah, blah, blah, when really they just abuse social security, ect because they couldnm't be fucked to learn at school and get a diploma.... I mean ffs if US was communist ur capital city would be called Welfare DC.......

lol welfare DC

I get what you're saying


FOR THE MOTHERLAND!

I just scrolled through all that was said, because frankly, its all off-topic. This is about mario being a communist presence in the american home. not about the ideals of communism. so get back on topic, or i'll say mean things.

Ok back on topic....

If mario is a commie, what is Luigi?

<!--QuoteBegin-Ness222+Jul 21 2004, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ness222 @ Jul 21 2004, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok back on topic....

If mario is a commie, what is Luigi? [/quote]
I say he green party.

sorry hound but i have to add a comment cos i havent been on for ages........

i know we all have our own opinion and shit and thats fine but cast your mind back even as little as 100 years ago, life was pretty shitty for the vast vast majoirty of people, i know we still have the rich and the poor but looking at it in that way life for the masses is pretty good even if you are considered to be the poor end of society.............unless you are iraqi.....then your house has just been bombed

<!--QuoteBegin-XxHoundxX+Jul 21 2004, 06:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (XxHoundxX @ Jul 21 2004, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just scrolled through all that was said, because frankly, its all off-topic. This is about mario being a communist presence in the american home. not about the ideals of communism. so get back on topic, or i'll say mean things. [/quote]
come on man ur sounding like tet now..... well except for the saying bad things part..... anyway Mario can#t be commie cos he's saving Princess Toadstool all the time and restoring her to her throne, ect so standing up for another monarchy.... also in Mario Land 2 on GB Wario had taken over Mario's Kingdom (you fight him in Mario's castle) so he himself is a king and had his kingdom taken over when he saved Princess Toadstools..... I think he isn't commie he's infact a medeavel style king whos only saving Toadstools kingdom to merge them together after King Toadstool dies and then has a huge kingdom and large ammounts of wealth......